RSS vs. RSS - A Tale of Two Icons
10.03.06 @ 4:24 pmThis article is somewhat belated and could be considered much ado about nothing, but nonetheless I think this is a relevant topic to discuss. Microsoft recently announced that they would be using the RSS icon introduced by the Firefox browser. This was considered a very wise choice by many, including myself at first as it was a victory (albeit small) for standardization. Soon afterward, Matt Brett started a micro-site to help propagate this icon for use by the public. I commend Matt’s efforts and fully back him on the notion that a standard icon needs to be established for syndication. My argument is that we are not backing the right icon…
I spent some time showing the Firefox RSS icon to individuals across the spectrum of familiarity with syndication and RSS. When I asked them to give me their first impressions of what they thought the Firefox RSS icon represented, I received the following comments:
- Audio
- Volume
- Radio
- WIFI
This variety of responses obviously poses a problem. Not only do people not know that the Firefox RSS icon represents RSS, but they immediately associate it with different subjects. This would be similar (granted, less disastrous) to people mistaking ’stop’ for ‘go’ at an intersection. If we are to support standards, we cannot promote new standards that conflict with other existing standards. While the original RSS icon is not particularly attractive or inspirational, no one is going to mistake it for anything other than RSS (whether they know what that is or not). Do not get me wrong, encapsulating the concept of XML syndication into an icon is no simple task and I applaud the designers who made the first attempt. Nonetheless, using the Firefox RSS icon as the standard seems to be more for the sake of standards and less for clarity.
This really begs the question, should icons depend on immediate recognition or on consistency? I again defer to the traffic light example. There is no innate reason why the color red should mean stop and the color green mean go. However, this visual language is so pervasive and ingrained in the individual’s psyche from an early age that its conceptual lack of significance is nullified. To take the example a step further, the color red now (at least in western cultures) almost universally signifies the notion of ’stop’. Therefore, the power of a visual standard, albeit subjective, becomes effective when recognized by the general public. This is all the more reason why it is unwise to employ an icon that closely resembles other visual standards. We risk making neither visual standard effective due to the inevitable confusion it would create.
RSS and syndication are not socially recognized symbols like traffic lights. RSS and syndication are relatively new concepts to the tech community. The RSS icon, with such a distinct purpose, should be focused on clarity in order to increase awareness of the fact that it exists. I understand the concept behind the new icon design, but unfortunately this paradigm has been taken. No matter how much it makes sense conceptually, if people associate the icon to something completely different, it fails as an icon. So why the big push to standardize an icon that definitely has its critics? This discussion is just one of many that have popped up after the push to universalize the icon. Are we more interested in the standard than the the subject of that standard? Are standards worth creating if they destroy others? I think this is something we should think about before fully moving forward.
In the end, I think we should stick to the old and boring RSS icon until an icon comes along that is more visually aesthetic and communicates the RSS purpose more clearly. While its lack of visual distinction is not enjoyable, it is not going to be mistaken for anything else. I hope this article is not perceived as a potshot at those who try to push new ideas. My concern is that we designers are meant to make things better, which does not always correlate to making things new. However, if we do decide to create something new, it most definitely should be better than the old. While there is no denying that the new RSS icon is easier on the eyes - the similarities it has with other classic visual representations is highly problematic. We need a standard RSS icon, but we don’t need one that will break other standards.
design, icons, opinion, rss standards
March 10th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
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March 11th, 2006 at 1:19 am
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There are problems with the icon (notably the broadcast imagery getting confused with other technologies), but I think you’re missing the most important thing: it’s not an RSS icon, it’s a feed icon. So it also applies to Atom, neatly hiding away the technologies involved and steering clear of all the usual RSS v Atom bitching.
I reckon it’s by far the best option we have for representing feeds.
March 11th, 2006 at 1:48 am
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I have to agree that on first looking at Firefox’s RSS icon, my thoughts do turn to a mobile (cell) phone signal. I welcome your discussion, because I think that it’s healthy to debate something that will be adopted by Microsoft, which, whether we like it or not, will mean that it will be much more prominent.
The fact that they have adopted it has given rise to an article such as this, but I feel that this is a little late.
Imagine the response from people if the ’signal’ icon was created by Microsoft. I’m sure that it would have received much more criticism.
Any thoughts on this?
March 11th, 2006 at 3:05 am
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There is a problem with your argumentation. RSS is just one of the feed formats availiable so I don’t think it would be fair to the others to use it. Selecting the RSS-icon is like deciding to use the Internet Explorer icon for Firefox instead of Firefox own because everybody knows what IE is. We do need a good standards icon for feeds but we can’t have it representing just one of players of the field.
March 11th, 2006 at 6:55 am
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I think it is more to do with the existing current Firefox icon being of standard icon dimensions. You would not be able to fit the ‘RSS’ onto an icon of similar dimension. This dimensional conformity allows it to be used in a wider array of UI placements and maintains consistency with UI icon look & feel.
Microsoft chose to use an already (albeit not widely) recognised icon rather than designing a completely new icon to fit the desired proportions.
Good on them, I say!
Besides, regarding people not recognising the icon I think it’s making a mountain out of a molehill - it doesn’t take long for people to learn what an icon means. After all many of the icons in MS Office wouldn’t have suggested their functions to me before taking a few seconds to find out what they were for. Once I had done that it was easy to remember. I am sure someone can quickly and easily make the mental association if they know what RSS is anyway.
March 11th, 2006 at 9:20 am
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Just think what people thought of the power symbol. If you were to show it to someone who had never seen it what the hell what they think let alone link it with. It will just take time for the image to imprint itself in everyone’s mind.
March 11th, 2006 at 9:29 am
Matt-
That’s a very good point, the only problem though is that for people new to the icon, it’s not percieved as a feed. I personally think we need to address clarity first and foremost. By all means, if we can avoid the RSS/ATOM problem, that would be optimal - but not at the loss of clarity.
Emil -
Good point, I was very unclear about this part. By stating that we should stay with the original icon design, I mean the current system (i.e. the orange box with the feed format). I should have been much more clear about this in both the title and the article - thanks for bringing this up.
Mark -
Netscape 8 uses a tweaked version of the original RSS in the top right corner of the address bar. I personally don’t think it’s a matter of dimensions. However I completely agree with everything else on a pragmatic level. Honestly, we’re talking about a syndication icon - it’s not the end of the world. I also applaud Microsoft for their stance on this - they definitely could have gone their own way as they usually do. People will eventually learn what this icon signifies, there’s no doubt about that. In my opinion though, it’s a very poorly constructed icon for various reasons stated above and the less pragmatic side of me winces at the thought of it becoming a standard.
Right now, this isn’t a huge issue all the browsers I know of don’t employ the type of icons that may conflict with this feed icon. I think the real test will be when an application has the need for both the feed icon and a radio or WIFI icon. That’s when the problems will begin to show.
March 12th, 2006 at 10:48 am
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You are forgetting that when IE 7 is widely used, at least 90% of the web’s users will have at least seen the new icon, and if Microsoft educates their users well on what it means, will know that it is for feeds.
March 12th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
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The problem is that ‘news feeds’ or ’syndication’ or ‘RSS’ on the web are not concepts that the majority of users are familiar with yet, let alone be able to associate imagery with. A little icon saying ‘RSS’ is only helpful if the user even knows what RSS is.
A much better comparison would be to take both icons to groups who do NOT know what RSS/Newsfeeds are and see their responses.
The newsfeed icon does not lock itself into one paticular technology, and takes up less screen space. It will also soon be the most recognised feeds symbol after IE7 is released. It just makes sense to use it.
March 13th, 2006 at 3:15 am
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That was a positive turn of events, indeed.
Don’t forget that RSS was often used for other syndicate feeds too, not just the “real” RSS, and all this thing was going completely out of hand!
March 13th, 2006 at 5:58 am
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I agree with Matt Round’s point that the orange ‘broadcast’ icon is meant to identify feeds in general, not necessarily RSS. Plus, keep in mind that although RSS may be a standardized name, the icon that uses those letters is in practice only familiar to the English-speaking world. A non-alphabetic symbol is more easily adopted worldwide, allowing someone in France to call it “syndication vraiment simple” for example (sorry if Babelfish gave me a bum translation).
Also, I think there is an interesting line that symbols walk—between being instantly recognized and growing into familiarity. I mean, even some things that should be obvious take an instance or two of use to confirm their purpose and meaning. As Mark Jones said, the MS Office interface is chock full of icons—and a user has to actually click on the fairly obvious printer icon to verify that it means “print your document” and not “cause a printer to spontaneously materialize on the desk next to your monitor.”
March 13th, 2006 at 10:03 am
Once again, great thoughts everyone.
While I definitely understand what’s being said, I’m still vehemetly sticking to my guns here. If it was just an unclear icon, I’d agree with whole-heartedly. The problem is, it’s easily mistaken for other established icon paradigms. It’s not that it’s just unclear, it makes people strongly think it’s something else entirely. Alexander, you bring up a great point about language issues causing problems with ‘RSS’ or ‘ATOM’ as the icon. I think my only argument to that is many times the acronym takes on a meaning of its own - much like ‘CSS’, ‘XML’ and ‘HTML’. Still, your point is well taken.
In the end, people will be smart enough to get it. I just think there’s going to be a lot of confusion before that happens.
March 13th, 2006 at 11:53 am
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once again, a very provocative and well written article!
I am extremely illiterate in the web design field, so i will approach this subject from the mindset of a print designer. the creation and standardization of icons are essential and necessary, especially for something as prevalent as RSS. However, to create an abstract or misleading icon, and then to assume that over time, it will become ingrained in the public’s mind, is a cop-out on the designer’s part. yes, virtually ANY icon can be thrown to the masses and will eventually be accepted as the & status-quo. look at any large scale identity/branding campaign, such as the infamous ATT logo. Its face lift created quite a stir. why? because it had become an accepted and familiar icon in the public sector…
however, to assume that the public will naturally associate any icon once it has an attached meaning contradicts the role of the designer. An icon’s sole purpose is to communicate an idea or word. A designer should create icons with the intention to make it as direct of a representation as possible. The current RSS icons doesn’t make the cut. In an academic setting, the RSS icon would not survive an entry-level critique since it is so ambiguous and encompasses many potential meanings. In a real life scenario, we should take the same high standards and scrutiny found in our academic upbringing and apply it to the work that will impact the world.
March 13th, 2006 at 12:50 pm
Yeah, what she said.
March 13th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
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If you were to take the icon out of context then of course people with associate it with something else they are *currently* more familiar (like maybe cell phones or wireless routers etc. etc.)
To me and others the icon represents a broadcast of some kind which is what RSS was always meant to be. If you consider that feeds now include audio feeds and will soon represent a deluge of video feeds perhaps the symbol more appropriate than you first thought. Prescient in some ways. Audio and video feeds via the Internet, many experts agree, will not long eclipse their radio and TV counterparts so perhaps we should really be congratulating the designer for his incredible foresight!
Anyway, I can’t think of a better way either of iconifying the idea of text/audio/video feeds but I’m sure if someone thinks of a better way it will not be big deal for the top browser vendors to agree to adopt it now that Microsoft is revelling in it’s new spirit of openness and cooperation!
March 13th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
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I agree with Mark Jones. There’s probably no more specific way to communicate “RSS” than by actually using type that says “RSS” like the former symbol did. But, as Steve says, this doesn’t tell you anything unless you already know that the letters stand for Really Simple Syndication.
And Mr. Dude, I think that acronyms becoming accepted as words themselves (like TV, HTML, etc.) is a bad thing–a substitute for real naming with real or invented words, a lack of imagination in sometimes, like almost a cannibalization of the english language. Acronyms will be to the late 90’s and 2000’s what tight letter-tracking and tight jeans was to the 80’s.
The new RSS logo does therefore communicate “broadcast” more effectively, since it actually attempts to describe something visually rather than hiding behind a code for a much-too-long name.
That’s my take on it. I’m not a fan of acronyms, by the way.
March 13th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
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pat- why do you always bring up the 80’s in your posts? ha ha.
March 13th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Yo Pat -
That’s funny that you don’t like acronyms. “a substitute for real naming with real or invented words, a lack of imagination in sometimes, like almost a cannibalization of the english language”
You could argue a logo does the same thing.
It is, of course, a shortened version of the real name with less meaning in itself. Nonetheless,as Shakespeare said:
If the acronym carries the same meaning, is it a concern? Hell, P.J., the name I go by is an acronym. If someone called me by my full name, I’m not even sure if I’d turn my head. The ‘RSS’ standard isn’t perfect, but that isn’t my arguement. My argument is that the current icon just flat out doesn’t communicate RSS or ATOM. At least with the acronym, no one is going to mistake it for something else.
I’ll be as happy as everyone else here when we don’t need to use the original RSS icon. I just don’t think the proposed icon should be the one to replace it.
March 13th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
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“Acronyms will be to the late 90’s and 2000’s what tight letter-tracking and tight jeans was to the 80’s.”
After having a GOOD laugh at Pat’s statement, i came to a realization that its true. So many words in both formal (IP, HTML, RSS) and informal settings (LOL, BRB, PJ ), have become commonly understood acronyms. (sorry, i had to make a ‘PJ’ joke, there.) Call it simplicity, laziness, efficiency, catchiness, or convenience. it all boils down to the fact that currently, acronyms are everywhere in our lives. therefore, i see where Pat’s coming from when he says that acronyms are ‘almost a cannibalization of the english language.’
at a closer look, perhaps we could theorize that the heavy usage/creation of acronyms is a result of people subconsciously creating iconic representations for terms that repeatedly arise in our daily vernacular. What is easier to identify? ‘HyperText Markup Language’ ‘or HTML’? a split second flash of ‘HTML’ would be sufficient for me to recognize it. Our acronyms function like the Kanji alphabet where a single image represents an entire idea. hey!…isn’t that ALSO the definition of a logo? This leads me to agreeing with PJ’s argument. An acronym CAN function as a legitimate icon. however,it could be a be a designer’s crutch if it is repeatedly used as quick solutions to a difficult problem.
As for the RSS argument, i believe the acronym icon is the best, temporary solution to such an ambiguous term…
March 14th, 2006 at 10:20 am
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I’ve actually recently had some real life experience with this issue — multiple readers saying that they were unable to find any existance of an RSS feed on my site. However the Feed Icon is represented next to two lists which they represent, and the feed is properly included in my header. But the point is — users were not able to find it. My assumption is that they’re using IE for one, and secondly and are used to seeing the orange RSS badge — perhaps this will change upon the release of IE7 with it’s adopted RSS representation but how can we be sure? And what do we do until then?
March 15th, 2006 at 9:46 pm
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Um…lets see a good icon that represents RSS. I’m tired of this shiney high gloss crap. Who are the morons that started that little craze?
March 16th, 2006 at 9:55 am
Well, I gotta say for the record that I don’t they’re morons in the slightest. I think the movement makes sense, I just think we need to improve the icon beforehand.
March 19th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
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yousuf. you rock.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:59 pm
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I actually came this page after a Google search trying to figure out what that icon is. My first search was “podcast icon.” I’m a designer, too, so you’d think I’d know these things, but all I’ve ever seen is the little “RSS” flag.
I’d propose an interim, evolutionary stage using an icon with both the graphic and “RSS” on it, tastefully designed so that people put the two together. It will then naturally follow that the “RSS” will drop from the design after a certain acclamation period.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:28 pm
Frankly, that’s probably the most sensible idea from this entire discussion. Well said.
October 6th, 2006 at 11:23 am
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January 31st, 2007 at 5:47 am
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[…] I just recently discovered the joys of RSS. I’m sure you’ve seen little orange RSS tags/badges and links on the side and footers of sites. You’ve also heard the term “RSS feed”. Well what the heck are they? Ever click on one? Well it’s just XHTML code that contains the pure unformatted content of the site. Great, so what does that have to do with you? […]
August 5th, 2007 at 1:30 am
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RSS vs. RSS - A Tale of Two Icons…
A blog entry posted on SomeRandomDude.net has got some pretty lively discussion about which icon is better suited for mainstream use to represent XML feeds on websites and in browsers.
Which do I prefer? Dave Winer’s original XML one!
Why?
It …
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:16 am
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This post was very insightful for me as I’m studying Interaction and Design at Umeå University, Sweden. We study… well, obviously design and interaction, and I’m quite fascinated by this post, and not to mention your well-polished vocabulary and choice of words.
Best of luck,
Victor
PS.
I agree totally with your opinions expressed in this post; it makes perfect sense.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:17 am
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[…] If not, a new-user’s common associations to might be “volume”, “audio” or “radio” as P.J. Onori points […]
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:24 am
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[…] If not, a new-user’s common associations to might be “volume”, “audio” or “radio” as P.J. Onori points […]
October 29th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
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[…] Leia: RSS vs. RSS - A Tale of Two Icons. […]
November 10th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
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i like either one.
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